Chiliz AMA with Wolf Crypto — Part Two
Chiliz, powering Socios.com, gives sports and esports fans the ability to crowd-manage their favorite teams, games, leagues and events. By 2020, Chiliz anticipate a sports & esports landscape that is not only shaped by what games, teams and leagues draw the highest audiences, but by those who can most effectively activate and monetise that audience by putting their fan-base in the driving seat.
It’s called radical fan engagement: A universal sports and esports ‘crowd-control’ engine capable of giving fans voting rights to guide their some of their favourite teams’ management and strategy decisions. Any league, any team and any game, realised with blockchain technology. With Chiliz powering the Socios.com platform, fans can become influencers of any competitive entity. In turn, teams, leagues & events, from any corner of the sports & esports world can then monetise the fan demand for these voting rights.
Chiliz has already signed partnerships with PSG, Juventus and West Ham, who will be using the CHZ token to power their fan tokens and FTO’s (fan token offerings) upon release of the Socios app. They have also signed a partnership with OG, a leading esports team and current DOTA 2 World Champions.
You can also visit the Chiliz Telegram channel or Chiliz website for further details.
Here’s what Chiliz CEO Alex Dreyfus had to say in the AMA.*
*This AMA has been edited for clarity.
WC (Wolf Crypto Telegram Member)
Welcome to another edition of Wolf Crypto AMA, this time with Chiliz! 🌶
Joining us from the Chiliz team is the main man himself, who probably needs no introduction to this group, but I’ll do it anyways, Alex Dreyfus!
Thanks for your time tonight Alex, I know its been a big day with Bitmax AND Kucoin listings!
AD
Oki guys. Let’s go.
WC
Before we get into it, just wanted to ask, you said earlier this week —
“I’m likely to do a quick AMA too with a great crypto influencer that I like”
I just saw you did an AMA with Ivan, we’re you meaning him or us? 😉
AD
I rather not comment, at this stage of the discussion.
CHZ & EXCHANGE LISTINGS
WC
Fair lol.
So I know it’s been a big day, with both Bitmax and Kucoin listings, how about we start there.
What your feelings and the strategy behind those listings?
AD
Well I know that everybody always expect us to go on Binance.com or OKEx because they are investors, but truth to be told, that doesn’t give you a fast pass. Which I believe is fair. It is either we deserve it or not 🙂
Time will tell 😉
Having said so, we believe that 1st of July was the right time to start our token launch, to prepare our commercial launch in September/October/November..
So we started with BinanceDEX and today we announced Bitmax, for its very specific audience, and KuCoin for the others territories it covers.
We see that as well, as a way to grow, step by step. We need to learn listing, trading and what’s around it. As we didn’t have a public sale, we have a lack of retail community, therefore we need to build up thru exchanges first.
WC
I noticed one thing about the listings and that was that they’re both BEP2 token listings.
Was this intentional and will you be listing ERC20 versions of the tokens in the future?
AD
Indeed. If we can, we try to do BEP2 — cause it is cheaper, faster and convenient. And guess what, it does help for the -we can’t name exchange -. Having said so, we will have ERC20 exchanges soon too.
Probably more localized, in specific territories.
WC
Thanks for the segue 😉
You said in your Ivan on Tech interview that China, Japan and Korea were huge markets for you. Can we also expect exchanges from those regions in the future?
AD
China, I’d say Bitmax covers that well for now, even though we aim eventually to have couple of extra. We are not looking for dozens of exchanges, it’s costly to maintain and spread the liquidity.
Japan, you need to be whitelisted. We will work on that in 2020.
Korea -> Yes 😉
WC
You keep touching on Korea, can you explain just what this is such a big market for Chiliz?
AD
It’ s a big markets for few reasons —
1. Crypto adoption/enthusiasts
2. Massive fandom culture
WC
Lets say that we end up with a situation where CHZ ERC-20 tokens gets listed on an exchange that doesn’t support BEP-2. We would then have two different prices; one for CHZ ERC-20 and one for CHZ BEP-2.
When the app launches, we already know that it will not support BEP-2 initially, however let’s fast forward to when both tokens are integrated into the Socios app.
Can you talk a bit more about how the app will support both tokens; will the prices be tied together somehow or will there be two currency pairs on the Socios app? Would love to hear some technical details here.
AD
I don’t see a big price difference, and if in Korea, where it is likely to be ERC20 against KRW, if it is slightly higher, it is fine.
We will likely (not 100% guarantee) accept BEP2 almost from beginning.
Eventually, we may also do CHZ BEP2 : CHZ ERC20 1:1 on our platform (early next year).
WC
As in a token bridge on the app?
AD
Possibly yes.
WC
Total supply of CHZ is enormous, whats circulating supply going to be?
AD
Good question. It is already public anyway, it is 30%-ish.
WC
Is the huge token supply one of the reasons you chose not to do an IEO and just do a straight list?
AD
Yep. We would have needed to change SAFT and agreements (of already distributed tokens), and I was not comfortable with that.
WC
What have you lost and what have you gained from not doing an IEO in your opinion?
AD
Marketing exposure.
WC
Do you think that really matters considering who you’ll be advertising through?
Huge networks associated with all these teams?
AD
We lack exposure from the cryptosphere.
WC
How are you going about addressing that?
How important is it once you have “real” users?
AD
Real users will take more time that trading users first. We started today, doing some crypto marketing (Ivan, etc …) and will do more in the next few weeks.
We need to pass the summer smoothly.
TEAMS & PARTNERSHIPS
WC
So today, you’ve had an interview with a top influencer and announcement of 2 exchanges. Very strong marketing I must say.
Do we expect to see more of this kind of thing closer to the app launch and actual token utility?
AD
You wish right. Let’s not ask too much 😉 its not scalable 😉
More marketing/exposure yes, but our trading strategy, is not to have 10x exchanges tomorrow morning. Honestly, we could. But so what 🙂
I want to build relationship with these exchanges, we need to build trust, talk to their communities and their traders can become our customers eventually.
WC
Speaking of which, we have a magical announcement coming up on Friday don’t we?
AD
I heard so.
WC
How many teams are you aiming to have on board end of year?
AD
Good question. I’d say 5 to 10 more.
WC
You say 5–10 teams, any clues as to what sports and regions?
AD
Sports:esports (DOTA2, LoL, PUBG, Fornite, etc …) + Cricket + Baseball + Basketball + some surprises.
Also will have some gaming. Esports will be under gaming banner, as we have few YouTubers that may join and create their token.
WC
NBA?👀
AD
Our US strategy is for end of year, early next year. We have to make sure the climate is positive. That’s the beauty of Chiliz 🙂 we do Soccer 😉 Americans don’t give a f… about Soccer 😉
So we have the rest of the world to play with, first.
WC
That’s quite the user base! 💪💪
Alex, you love quoting numbers, got any idea as to how many fans you’re targeting across all of these teams?
AD
More than you can count.
WC
There were a few YouTube videos made from West Ham fans that were angry by the Socios partnership.
Have you had any discussion with regular West Ham fans that aren’t involved with crypto and what were your thoughts on the videos made?
AD
I loved it!!!
Actually it proved few things —
1. We are right in what we want to offer. People WANTS to have a voice/ a power towards their club
2. People are passionate about football and their team
3. We need to educate/inform, when the product will be live. Today wouldn’t make any sense (because there is a lot of misinformation).
WC
I was thinking the same, although how do you then turn them around to start using Socios?
AD
It’s the club’s job 🙂 To make them using it by offering the right surveys and experiences. It will take time, as I said, its all about education, so the next 12 months will be important.
But eventually, they want the service we ‘invented’, just don’t understand — yet — and the terms attached it.
WC
Yes I feel the same although the education point you mentioned is key. I guess the main way that will be done is by their mates having tokens and them not
Hopefully some serious peer pressure!!
AD
Exactly. If only 3% of fans says they buy and eventually have a voice, others will be ‘jealous’ of it.
So, it is a matter of time. I’m confident, but it will take time — again.
WC
How are you getting over that lack of crypto knowledge when dealing with teams and traditional businesses?
AD
Depends which country 😉
I can say in Turkey they were the most knowledgeable 😉
WC
Who’s leading the charge on signing up teams?
AD
We have a dedicated partnership team, 4 people for that. We talk to 50+ teams currently.
THE SOCIOS APP
WC
Let’s talk about product, the last demo we saw was back in May.
Are we going to get another look at the app before you go into release?
AD
Yes probably.
We are trying to add more and more features to have a decent product. We can’t have a “testnet/mainnet” situation, so we have to have a consumer facing ready product. That takes time.
WC
Yeah so speaking on this, what is the plan for release?
Is it going to be a beta release or full product release (albeit with limited features)?
AD
Zillion dollar question. Ask me again end of August 🙂
WC
I’ll hold you to that.
Have you set a deadline internally as to when you’re going to (or want to) release the app?
AD
Yep, last April 🙂
25 years of experience of internet business, doesn’t change the fact that it takes always more time that I want. As one of my investor said, you can’t deliver a baby in one month with 9 pregnant women.
So, need the work to be done and it takes time.
WC
Ok let me put it this way, you’re pretty football orientated at the moment, and the football season start in full force late August/early September, will you have the app out by then?
AD
That ‘s the goal, but I believe it will be rather mid/end of September, around Champions League + others promotions we push.
WC
How is testing going?
AD
It’s crashing every second. all good. Kidding, its going well, but want to add more.
WC
How many users are already registered to Socios?
AD
So ‘registered’ per se, because the app is not live yet, but we did a small campaign with Juventus for 2 weeks-ish, we got 40,000+ registrations of people who want to download the app when available.
We think we will have 100,000 users registered the first 3 months and likely 1m after one year hopefully. (doesn’t mean daily active users or crazy buyers, but the more the better _> viral + promotion + etc …).
WC
How many users from these campaigns do you expect to actually convert?
AD
These ones should be pretty high. Also, all the clubs, we give away free token for token season holder. So Juventus, you get 50,000 people, etc …
I don’t want to disclose too much there.
FAN TOKEN OFFERINGS
WC
Taking into account a late September release, when would you plan to do the first FTO? And with what team?
West Ham to be the only one that’s set a price of a fan token so far
AD
The West Ham price has been announced indeed. Friday, our next team will also announce the price. The price range will more or less be between 1–2 Euro.
Fan Tokens are NOT divisible, by the way. You can’t own 0.5 of a fan token.
WC
Our next team as in the new one? So we’ll get a name AND a fan token price?
AD
Yep.
WC
With the OG announcement, it seemed like they were the ones who were going to do a FTO first, and try and help you work out the model and what works/doesn’t.
Is this still the case? If so what’s the timing on that?
AD
First esports team for sure, but not sure they would be first FTO (maybe).
It’s going to be ‘easier’ to do some cool stuff with OG though.
WC
Can you give an example of what “cool” is to you? 😉
AD
Fonzy is cool.
WC
Heeeeeyyyyy!
WC
How do you see FTO’s differing between different sports?
Any different or same model for all?
AD
We have some new verticals, we are looking at, which would have other models. But can’t disclose yet.
WC
Ok what are the current verticals you have for FTO’s and fan tokens right now?
AD
I see what you did there. Football / Esports I’d say 🙂
Then, the rest is open to our imagination. We are tokenizing fan influence, there is many way to grow that, but hey, we didn’t get our first client yet 😉 So wait.
WC
I think I discussed this with you last time but how does the supply of fan tokens work?
I know you have a 50 fan token cap for each person but how does the overall supply work?
AD
There is a pre-minted amount of Fan Tokens (for each team).
WC
Will fan tokens be able to be sold or traded p2p?
AD
Not at first, because we can’t take a % of a fan token (you’d need CHZ that you may not have) and also would remove interest of the marketplace/exchange.
Trading P2P yes, thru our marketplace, as per the video.
JUV/CHZ PSG/CHZ etc, but not JUV/PSG.
WC
Lets talk more about the marketplace.
What else can you buy on the app past fan tokens?
AD
Marketplace -> exchange, not shop.
WC
I saw in one of your recent twitter updates that you own a European license for a Fiat to Crypto exchange is that how you are able to offer the fan token offerings?
AD
Yep. It would allow us to offer you to buy CHZ thru Fiat on our platform.
WC
On that note, what’s the deal with who can access these?
The usual’s are banned? China, Syria, Iraq etc?
AD
We will see when released, but yes, for sure some countries are banned.
WC
Any idea on what countries? Cause if so, I think we can assume we won’t see you signing any teams from those countries 😉
AD
You will not see teams from Sudan for sure.
WC
Any plans for international teams?
Events? Champions League? World Cup, European Cup?
AD
International teams -> national teams?
No. We don’t find the way to create a fan token that make sense.
Leagues/events, doesn’t work the model yet — we think.
FAN TOKEN HUNTS
WC
Can people that find tokens in the token hunt move those tokens off the app and sell directly on the secondary market or they will be locked to the app?
AD
There will be a lock period at first, like 90 days or so.
WC
Will this be for each token found?
As in I find a token on launch then 90 days later find more tokens post that 90 day period.
Can they be sold or they will also have a 90 day lock up?
AD
From date on when you found it.
WC
In which countries will token hunt go first?
AD
Based on your avatar, I better say Italy. But I’d lie.
FUTURE PLANS
WC
Considering your previous history in the gambling market, would you be open to offering some form of gambling on the app either p2p for say results of matches or even a full fledged betting application powered by $CHZ?
AD
Considering, yes. But not in the short term. We have to be careful of regulations and not alienating our clubs partners 🙂
Also, honestly, you don’t need CHZ to gamble today on sports. Our goal is not to do something that exist already, we focus on innovation, giving a voice, a power to fans, is our business.
We use blockchain/crypto for transparency, tradability and because of creating an ecosystem.
WC
You mentioned in a comment on the Binance listing application that you have first talks for (maybe) moving into the music space too.
Any details on that?
AD
No details, but eventually, we will want to expand as many verticals we can, to increase the revenue per users and a football fan is also a fan of others hobbies/brands/IPs.
WC
Does this mean I can vote for who I want to be in my favourite KPOP band?
AD
Ideally.
WC
Have you worked out what percentage of tokens will go back to the Chiliz foundation from fan tokens being brought?
Will there be any burn function for a percentage?
AD
Not a foundation, we are a business FWIW.
Not yet. Will see in Q1 2020, after our first revenues and users.
WC
Can you share some details in regards to what the revenue share is with the clubs that you sign on?
AD
Think about the App Store model, a majority of revenue goes to the club.
WC
What value are your crypto advisors or investors adding to the project?
AD
Actually quite a lot. We don’t have crypto advisors, we have only business advisors. People who can help us in the next 18 months or so, about structing the business, networking, access to certain people, etc …Being challenged by them, etc …
WC
How about your investors? You have some big crypto names on the books, despite not having crypto advisors.
AD
Ah yes, they are helping us (Binance especially) for networking and opening doors.
We have an investor, Xavier Niel (equity) who is one of the 27 founders of Libra 😉 that will help.
WC
What is your end goal for the Chiliz project?
AD
That’s vague 🙂
For me, it’s about building, creating a consumer-facing platform allowing millions of users to interact with their favorites teams/brands.
Now what? Starting to build more exposure around our token (marketing, listing) + announcing more sports teams (one on Friday) + more partnerships (crypto/non-crypto-mainstream) + launching the app + acquiring users + generating revenue + retaining users + etc …Traditional business 🙂
WC
What is your current revenue model is this purely the fan token offerings?
AD
Nope. We see ourselves as ‘Binance of Sports” (rocky name).
We take a commission on every transactions between fans/clubs.
So Fan Token Offering (IEO ish), but then , when fan sell its PSG token against CHZ, we take a % too, so the more fans, the more transactions -> revenue.
WC
When you think about it, its kind of an apt name, as Binance is the king of IEO’s, and you’re attempting to be the father and king of FTO’s.
FTO’s are always in CHZ right?
AD
Yep. We have others services, we gonna sell (digitally) to consumers, via CHZ too.
WC
Is there then any lock up for a percentage of the revenue gained in CHZ?
AD
Not at this stage. Our vision is very pragmatic -> let’s do our first $ of revenue, let’s see what works and doesn’t, then we adjust our tokens economics. If I write you a business plan today, would be bullshit anyway.
Chiliz Resources
Website: https://www.chiliz.com
Telegram: https://t.me/chiliz_io
Medium: https://medium.com/chiliz
Whitepaper: https://www.chiliz.com/docs/CHZ_whitepaper.pdf
Socios Resources
Website: https://www.socios.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/socios
Wolf Crypto Resources
Public Group: https://t.me/WolfCryptoPub
News Channel: https://t.me/WolfCryptoAnnounce
Twitter: https://twitter.com/WolfCryptoGroup
